a no charge visit.. he put a new one in and it stitched fine.. also saw these 11 inch Mickey designs and asked where they came from.. they are only on the Brother 4500D , they are built in ones.. nuts... Oh well , on the way home I got to thinking , when I bought that 4000d it came with a upgraded package that made it a 4500D.. So I looked in the built in designs and sure enough it is in my machine... this Mickey is 11 x 6 yeaaaa.. good news with that... but then I checked my bobbin holder in the Quattro and sure enough I had a needle hole in that case also.. got out a sharp knife and smoothed both side of the hole and it is fine..but the next time I take that 45 mile drive to my dealer I will get a new one , since there is no charge for it.. That was my day yesterday...